problems with alignment when reversing [Archive] - F150 Nation: A Ford F150 Forum

91fordpower

07-19-2013, 08:58 PM

I don't know if it's the lift I put on or my ball joints are bad or if my hubs are bad or if my truck is just one of a kind but everytime I go backwards my wheels camber outwards and when I pull forward they fix themselves and it's fine...I have a 6 inch suspension lift on it and I don't know if that's why, I do have stocks on my truck right now with the lift I'm just waiting to get enough $$$ to buy a set of tires and by the way my truck doesn't show any cases of loose ball joints or bad hubs it rolls perfect down the road and doesn't have that much play when turning left or right

Raptor05121

07-19-2013, 09:42 PM

how many miles and when was the last front end alignment?

91fordpower

07-20-2013, 07:02 AM

how many miles and when was the last front end alignment?

It's a 91 with a 4.9 I wish I could tell you but my Speedo stopped working the day I got it and it was aligned before I put the lift on but the odd thing is when I drive its perfectly aligned

dchawk81

03-19-2014, 01:05 AM

My Navigator has an entirely new front suspension/uppers/ball joints and it does the same thing. Fresh tires & alignment too. I mentioned it to the shop and they said it's a Ford thing when backing up and to not worry about it.

Raptor05121

03-19-2014, 01:13 AM

I would take it to another shop. I've never heard of that. My truck is almost at 400,000 miles and has had 3 alignments in its life, all holding within spec.

Ford Fan#1

03-19-2014, 05:38 AM

I have never heard of that wierd.

RhinoZ24

03-19-2014, 08:10 AM

dchawk81

03-19-2014, 12:27 PM

It definitely is not lol, I've never heard of that.

Well these guys have been in business for 60+ years and are booked solid for alignments all day every day. That doesn't happen in a town of less than 12,000 if you're screwing people or don't know your sh*t.

I have zero problems with my vehicle in any other respect. It drives perfect, gas mileage is at or above government estimates, and it's dead quiet. A little negative camber when backed into a parking spot doesn't bother me one bit if my shop is telling me it's normal.

Yeah it's weird as heck but Randy is THE alignment guy in there...he's been doing it for at least 20 years. He came out and looked at it himself. He had also aligned it himself. He'd see more F series front ends than anyone, and my Navigator is really just an F-150. The police department, post office, and emergency services have their cruisers, delivery trucks, and ambulance done by Randy too.

My only problem with them is they consistently need a week's advance appointment time to fit you in. ;) Randy has only started training a guy my age that I went to school with to help the load because they don't trust just anyone to do it. I'm 33 so that should tell you something about these guys.

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Jersey_Joe

03-19-2014, 02:25 PM

Go Randy!! Lol

RhinoZ24

03-19-2014, 03:01 PM

Well these guys have been in business for 60+ years and are booked solid for alignments all day every day. That doesn't happen in a town of less than 12,000 if you're screwing people or don't know your sh*t.

I have zero problems with my vehicle in any other respect. It drives perfect, gas mileage is at or above government estimates, and it's dead quiet. A little negative camber when backed into a parking spot doesn't bother me one bit if my shop is telling me it's normal.

Yeah it's weird as heck but Randy is THE alignment guy in there...he's been doing it for at least 20 years. He came out and looked at it himself. He had also aligned it himself. He'd see more F series front ends than anyone, and my Navigator is really just an F-150. The police department, post office, and emergency services have their cruisers, delivery trucks, and ambulance done by Randy too.

My only problem with them is they consistently need a week's advance appointment time to fit you in. ;) Randy has only started training a guy my age that I went to school with to help the load because they don't trust just anyone to do it. I'm 33 so that should tell you something about these guys.

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That guy is a beast then lol. I still don't get how it's just a Ford thing, other brands must do it too if its normal for Ford and doesn't do much harm. Either that or Ford can't figure out how to fix it lol

dchawk81

03-19-2014, 08:36 PM

Go Randy!! Lol

Lol.

That guy is a beast then lol. I still don't get how it's just a Ford thing, other brands must do it too if its normal for Ford and doesn't do much harm. Either that or Ford can't figure out how to fix it lol

Lol he does know his stuff. It doesn't make sense to me either but I'm no engineer.

It's not a nasty camber but you can definitely see it. I wouldn't want it to be that way in forward gears though for sure.

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This is a pic I took today. I'm not sure how much it helps because it's not even on perfect level (thus exaggerating the angle), but it hopefully helps illustrate the effect.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/jy5e8anu.jpg

alfie

03-19-2014, 08:45 PM

Mmmmmmm. I have to ask our front end guy. Hope I remember to do so. Seams weird. But then again I'm not a front end guy.

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dchawk81

03-19-2014, 09:09 PM

For the record, my Ford Contour didn't do it and I never saw it on anything else I've owned or observed so it might be just this front end design on these trucks.

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If I think about it I'll try backing up with 4WD locked to see if it's the rear having a dragging effect on the front.

Ford Fan#1

03-19-2014, 09:20 PM

Could it be to get more grip when reversing? This is extremely weird and it moves back when you put it in drive?

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Lol. Lol he does know his stuff. It doesn't make sense to me either but I'm no engineer. It's not a nasty camber but you can definitely see it. I wouldn't want it to be that way in forward gears though for sure. ---------- This is a pic I took today. I'm not sure how much it helps because it's not even on perfect level (thus exaggerating the angle), but it hopefully helps illustrate the effect. can you post a picture of it in park? Or was it in reverse when this picture was taken?

dchawk81

03-19-2014, 10:31 PM

Could it be to get more grip when reversing? This is extremely weird and it moves back when you put it in drive?

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can you post a picture of it in park? Or was it in reverse when this picture was taken?

It's in park (and ignition off) for that photo. It had to be because no one was in it.

It's not moving as in a feature when you change gears ie the way automatic door locks engage. It just seems like the front gets pulled when you physically move backwards and for some reason or another the tires spread eagle in the process. Driving forward seems to push the tires straight again. You could probably throw it in neutral and push or winch the truck forward and the tires would straighten.

I'm not sure if being 4WD locked would keep the tires straight or not since it would be helping move the vehicle (as opposed to the front being dragged by the rear in 2WD). I never tried it. I will though if I remember to.

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I just think there's just some strange front end design "fault" that allows the wheels or hubs or something to wiggle when the vehicle is moving backwards but doesn't have the same wiggle in forward motion.

That's my theory anyway.

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I mean I've had it up to 90mph on the highway and it's perfect so I don't think there's anything...well...wrong. Not in the "gotta replace my garbywhatsyhoosit bushings before annual inspection" sense at least.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 05:38 AM

It's in park (and ignition off) for that photo. It had to be because no one was in it. It's not moving as in a feature when you change gears ie the way automatic door locks engage. It just seems like the front gets pulled when you physically move backwards and for some reason or another the tires spread eagle in the process. Driving forward seems to push the tires straight again. You could probably throw it in neutral and push or winch the truck forward and the tires would straighten. I'm not sure if being 4WD locked would keep the tires straight or not since it would be helping move the vehicle (as opposed to the front being dragged by the rear in 2WD). I never tried it. I will though if I remember to. ---------- I just think there's just some strange front end design "fault" that allows the wheels or hubs or something to wiggle when the vehicle is moving backwards but doesn't have the same wiggle in forward motion. That's my theory anyway. ---------- I mean I've had it up to 90mph on the highway and it's perfect so I don't think there's anything...well...wrong. Not in the "gotta replace my garbywhatsyhoosit bushings before annual inspection" sense at least.oh ok do you know how to fix your headlights? Oxidation.

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 05:57 AM

oh ok do you know how to fix your headlights? Oxidation.

Yeah they're due for another buff job. You should see how yellow they were when I bought it...

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 06:46 AM

Yeah the cargo light on my truck was bad too ( still needs it some more too. )

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 06:48 AM

Before

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 06:49 AM

After ( I use the mothers headlight kit and tech wax after )

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 06:50 AM

Yeah it's a process when they're real bad. I've only hit them twice so far and it'll likely be a never ending battle.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 06:53 AM

Actually I only did the cargo lamp once 2-3 times should do the job if you keep them waxed then you shouldn't have to do them again the headlights were not in the best shape now they look like new and it's been about 6 months

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 06:55 AM

6 months to a year is about all I get. I had to do the Contour regularly...but my tolerance is really low and I kept them super clear when it was warm enough to be out there.

It's been too cold for the Navi.

The cargo lamp doesn't get the brunt of everything like headlamps do. Same goes for tails...nowhere near the exposure.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 07:00 AM

Do they feel like sand paper? If so they are a lot worse then my truck was

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 07:07 AM

A little now but severely so when I first got it. I took a "layer" off but it'll take several passes before I'm satisfied enough to seal it. Right now, since I couldn't get it 100% I just leave it open because it's easier to let some oxidation build up and remove it than getting wax back off. It had 15 years' worth on it to start so a few months doesn't add much by comparison.

I might even end up removing them and doing them indoors like I did with the Contour.

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Oh and some of what you see in that photo is condensation and rain. Makes them look worse than they are.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 07:13 AM

Yeah that's what I did to my truck taking the light out is a lot easier I have not tried to fix lights that bad

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 07:15 AM

Lol I already had the goop and a buffer and I'm more OCD about poor fitting aftermarket lights than OEM haze. Hah

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 08:11 AM

I dug up this before/after that I had taken when I first buffed the lights. I guess they weren't quite as yellow as I remembered, but they were definitely worse than they are now. Winter didn't help any though, that's for sure.

6914

And here's a current photo (as of today)

6915

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 08:37 AM

Looks good for being 15 years old ( 1998 I'm guessing )

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 09:06 AM

Yep it's a 1998 with 189k on it. I got it cheap when the air ride went, put a little money and a lot of effort into it, and sold my car because it wasn't posh enough anymore even though it was a 1999 and only had 73k on it. Lol. Gas mileage be damned...those little marketing bullet points add up. Hah

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 09:14 AM

Not much you can do for gas Milage K&N filter and a tuner that's about it ( besides if you have a lot of junk in it )

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 09:14 AM

I actually use it as a truck though rather than just an obese, overly capable grocery-getter.

6916

6917

6919

But sometimes I get a chance to doll it up a tad.

6918

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 09:15 AM

Nice

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 09:19 AM

Not much you can do for gas Milage K&N filter and a tuner that's about it ( besides if you have a lot of junk in it )

Agreed. I'm not really a tuner/custom guy though so I just did the usual filter replacement, inspection and replacement of bad parts, etc.

LRR tires helped a lot though. I gained a couple MPG with Continental LX20s over the GY SilentArmors it came with, but I'll put the SAs back on when I go off-road and/or need more snow traction next winter. I bought OEM wheels for the LRR tires so I wouldn't have the hassles and costs of remounting and balancing.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 09:20 AM

Nice what kinda Milage does it get?

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 09:26 AM

Nice what kinda Milage does it get?

When I first got it I was lucky to get 12 all around but after routine maintenance, cleaning, and ditching those heavy spongey all-terrains I now get about 15 all around and can sometimes get 17-18 of pure highway. Towing that Escort was with the old tires and at 55mph tops stop & go mixed in the snow. It got about 11 for that.

It's basically at or slightly above EPA estimates.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 10:20 AM

Not as bad as I thought

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 11:30 AM

I was actually impressed with the towing because it had three adults (including me), and two kids plus my tools in the back. I know it was nowhere near its GVWR but still.

The fuel mileage wasn't terrible and it didn't feel like I had much of anything in or behind me. The Navigator was for rich people back in the day but they beefed it up like an F-250. It has the bigger 4R100 transmission and 5.4L V8.

Best part? I paid $1,000 for it and it only took $105 to replace the suspension. I have less than $2500 in it total, which includes the spare wheels and new tires.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 11:46 AM

Wow I got mine for 6k and I have put about $1200 in it ( more needed need new gaskets possibly head gasket hopefully not )

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 11:47 AM

What year is your truck? It looks newer? 02-ish?

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 12:28 PM

2003 it has 244,000 miles it's a 5.4 SuperCrew King Ranch

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 12:32 PM

Here's some pictures of it all cleaned up the seats anyways the passenger seat always had a black suitcase on it ( I'm assuming ) and it fell in the floor ripped the seat ( not cared for too well if it's torn ) and broke the plastic part on the side it was black but it's mostly clean now worse part is the previous owner was a smoker

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 12:33 PM

Here's the seats when I bought

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 12:39 PM

244K? I heard they can run forever with proper maintenance.

Nice job on the cleanup. My driver's seat is really sad. I think all the previous owners basically slid down and out rather than stepping on the running boards. The shoulder next to the door is broken and worn. Otherwise it's just normal age wear on the booty parts of the seats. It's expected for the year, but I wouldn't have paid real money for it.

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 01:09 PM

Yep runs great ( besides oil leaks )

Raptor05121

03-20-2014, 02:05 PM

Going back to the problem- I wonder if this has to do with any steering components? Such as the tie rods, pitman arm, or idler arm being loose/out of spec.

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 03:05 PM

Going back to the problem- I wonder if this has to do with any steering components? Such as the tie rods, pitman arm, or idler arm being loose/out of spec.

Not sure. I haven't replaced any of those on mine but the shop said they're good, and it drives like they're good.

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 07:29 PM

Yep runs great ( besides oil leaks )

How much do you find yourself leaking and where is it leaking out?

Ford Fan#1

03-20-2014, 07:55 PM

How much do you find yourself leaking and where is it leaking out?its not noticeable until you smell after it's been wormed up no drop in oil level and it's about half of the right side ( valve covers and oil pan and hopefully not the head gasket ) there's a trend on it with pictures on here

dchawk81

03-20-2014, 09:28 PM

its not noticeable until you smell after it's been wormed up no drop in oil level and it's about half of the right side ( valve covers and oil pan and hopefully not the head gasket ) there's a trend on it with pictures on here

Ah gotcha. Slow seepage then?

Ford Fan#1

03-21-2014, 05:36 AM

It looks like a lot its running down the AC compressor and right side of the transmission

Ford Fan#1

03-21-2014, 05:42 AM

It's also going down the headers

Ford Fan#1

03-21-2014, 05:44 AM

It was going slow and said connection timed out that's why i posted it twice.

dchawk81

03-21-2014, 02:04 PM

I'm wondering how you don't see that loss on your dipstick.

Ford Fan#1

03-21-2014, 02:06 PM

Me too..

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dchawk81

03-21-2014, 03:54 PM

Strange. When I first got the Navi it was down from minimum by about a quart after about a 4,000 mile OCI. I topped it off and was hoping to get it to 5,000 because that would put it at 190k and easy to remember change times but had to settle for 189k. I changed it but haven't put enough miles on it to see if it was just cheap oil, a sketchy oil change place not putting enough in, or a major (or minor) problem with the vehicle. I don't see any leaks and it doesn't seem to be burning any but I'm watching the fresh M1 full synthetic like a hawk.

I know who changed it before and I wouldn't put it past them to put in 5 quarts and charge for 7. I let them inspect my car but I don't trust them to touch it.

Ford Fan#1

04-01-2014, 03:00 PM

I think my truck is doing the same thing when I back up they looked like the tops were facing to the wheel well then I drove it and it's fine now

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dlcsr2k

04-01-2014, 07:30 PM

1986 F150 4x4 exact same issue. When you back up the toe in causes the tires to run away from each other. This causes the twin I beam to pivot down tilting the wheels in at top.

dchawk81

04-01-2014, 07:57 PM

Hah see. I'm not crazy. Not about this at least. :P

RhinoZ24

04-01-2014, 09:39 PM

Ok I was wrong lol

RexReid

04-02-2014, 03:34 PM

all you all are crazy...that's all

dchawk81

04-02-2014, 04:43 PM

all you all are crazy...that's all

Well yeah...but that's different.

dchawk81

07-07-2014, 08:36 AM

Okay so I was wrong and so was my alignment guy. Had a bad idler arm and he didn't catch it. They still spread eagle a little but nowhere near as bad.

RexReid

07-07-2014, 08:45 AM

Okay so I was wrong and so was my alignment guy. Had a bad idler arm and he didn't catch it. They still spread eagle a little but nowhere near as bad.

I remember once I was wrong too. My truck was vibrating and I ignored it. Then there was a bang. pulled off to the side and my back wheel was gone. I looked back down the freeway and sure enough, the wheel was coming down the freeway. It came right to me and I threw it in the bed. The tow truck driver liked the story.

dchawk81

07-07-2014, 09:05 AM

I remember once I was wrong too. My truck was vibrating and I ignored it. Then there was a bang. pulled off to the side and my back wheel was gone. I looked back down the freeway and sure enough, the wheel was coming down the freeway. It came right to me and I threw it in the bed. The tow truck driver liked the story.

Yeah this is my first experience with this whole "wrong" thing. It's strange.

RhinoZ24

07-07-2014, 02:33 PM

Yeah this is my first experience with this whole "wrong" thing. It's strange.

Lol and I knew that misalignment in reverse only sounded strange haha. At least you got it figured out and fixed it for the most part.

Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallows

dchawk81

07-07-2014, 04:23 PM

I wasn't even worried about it until I started having more and more "walking" on the road. When I first got the vehicle I chalked it up to Lincoln wag. Then I blamed the knobby tires I was running. Figured they were just gummy tread. Then I got the Continentals with harder "Eco" tread and it went away then came back. I guess it went away until the idler arm wore down to the point that the tires were no longer compensating or masking it.

It got to where I couldn't keep it in the lane on the highway anymore without putting up a fight. 2.5 hours of that to a wedding, an 8 hour wedding (working not attending) and then 2.5 hours home about killed me. That's when I got serious about fixing it. Ordered an idler arm, a pitman arm, and all four tie rod ends. Figured I'd put it all on if I had to but do the idler first since it was most likely and wouldn't affect my alignment.

Half an hour later I'm good. Tight...straight...and now retaining control through potholes.

I'll do the pitman and tie rod ends before my next alignment but they're fine for now.

RexReid

07-07-2014, 04:32 PM

Yeah this is my first experience with this whole "wrong" thing. It's strange.

I have a therapist who is really good at explaining the trauma of the first time realizing that as unlikely as it sounds, you could be....wrong.

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I wasn't even worried about it until I started having more and more "walking" on the road. When I first got the vehicle I chalked it up to Lincoln wag. Then I blamed the knobby tires I was running. Figured they were just gummy tread. Then I got the Continentals with harder "Eco" tread and it went away then came back. I guess it went away until the idler arm wore down to the point that the tires were no longer compensating or masking it.

It got to where I couldn't keep it in the lane on the highway anymore without putting up a fight. 2.5 hours of that to a wedding, an 8 hour wedding (working not attending) and then 2.5 hours home about killed me. That's when I got serious about fixing it. Ordered an idler arm, a pitman arm, and all four tie rod ends. Figured I'd put it all on if I had to but do the idler first since it was most likely and wouldn't affect my alignment.

Half an hour later I'm good. Tight...straight...and now retaining control through potholes.

I'll do the pitman and tie rod ends before my next alignment but they're fine for now.

I knew that is what it needed. All good therapists know that people need to figure things out for themselves. The other reason is that they make more money with that philosophy. How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? One. But the light bulb has to really want to change.