No Offense

[RhinoZ24]

Except for in the Raptor, can someone tell me why they have the 6.2L in the F-150. It's so limited, unless you get an aftermarket 5th wheel attachment (if there even is one), the towing capacity is limited to 11,300lbs. Just the same as the Ecoboost, even though the 6.2 has more HP and Torque. Cause in the Superduty, the 6.2 can tow up to 15,000 and something. So why make it an option if the towing is limited and the mileage is terrible compared to the Ecoboost? Why not bring back a new and improved 5.4L? Anyone have some input on this, cause I've been pondering over this for awhile.

[Raptor05121]

The 5.4L is an outdated engine by today's standards. Since its inception in 1997, the 5.4L has served Ford for a number of years, but like any engine after a certain length of time, technology outdates it. By comparison:

1997 SOHC 5.4L: 260hp/350tq @ 15 mpg

2013 DOHC Ti-VCT 3.7L V6: 302hp/278tq @ 23 mpg

To put Ti-VCT in a 5.4L would require changing EVERYTHING: pistons, block assy, crank, cam, lobes, valves, etc. It simply better to create a new engine from the ground up. In the case of the "Boss" series, the 6.2L is intended to compete with Dodge's HEMI and Chevy's Vortec. Ford realized the gamble with the Duratec 37 and EcoBoost was the fanfare of people still loyal to the 8-cylinder. You will still have people wanting high-output, but afraid of technology and will choose a big-block V8 over a smaller, turbocharged V6. It is also mod-friendly to a degree. The Boss 62 features TWO spark plugs per cylinder, so it has even greater spark penetration if the owner decides to go with forced induction (which MANY Raptor owner's have chosen to do). I honestly would love to see a 6.2L variant and 3.5L variant of the Raptor, but in a street-scene like appearance (I'm part of the group that believes Ford should bring back the Lightning).

Now, the 6.2L does have a step over the EcoBoost. While the mileage is terrible in today's standards, it would maintain only a slight drop while towing while the EcoBoost requires just about 8lbs of boost while towing, making its fuel consumption just as bad. And while the EcoBoost gets its numbers using premium fuel, the 6.2L can get its brute force while running regular. It's just Ford's answer to filling the niche. With their four engined lineup, they span just about everyone's needs although Ford has already expressed concern with the CAFE standards that the future of the 6.2L might be limited.

And you are right on the towing part. Even though it can tow well past 11K pounds, the F-150 is not suited for fifth-wheel towing. The powertrain can handle it (the 6.2L is available in the Super Duty) but the suspension of the F-150 is limited, especially the rear wheel loading and the instability it would cause over the weight distribution thereby creating a very unsafe truck/trailer combo (this is very prominent in trailer sway tests) and also the truck's stopping power as a unit. Now fifth-wheel F-150s have been used time and time again and will continue to do so, but if you are going to drop dime on a 35' fifth wheel camper, why stop at an F-150? Its much safer to upgrade to a Super Duty.

[RhinoZ24]

Well thank you for this Alex haha, you should just be the CEO of Ford already lol. Yeah I understand the 5.4L lacked power, it is still in use in the Expedtion and the E-Series, along with the 4.6, but why not rebuild it like they did 10 years later with the 5.0L from the old 302. Then again they might be. I get they're competing with other companies, but why not turbo-charge a smaller V8 to get more power and better MPG's than the 6.2L since it can't reach it's full potential in the F-150 like it can in the Superduty's.

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I know I'm asking a bunch of stupid questions, but I'm just curious.

[Jersey_Joe]

Damn Alex. U r quite impressive. I do love the 5.4. And hated that I got my ass whipped. So that's why I modded the hell out of it. 5.0 and ecoboost engines r so impressive with there numbers its rediculus But ford is deff moving in the direction of revampment. They want to b #1. And they r in the us But yes a revamped 5.4 would b kick ass but her day has passed

[Raptor05121]

Well thank you for this Alex haha, you should just be the CEO of Ford already lol. Yeah I understand the 5.4L lacked power, it is still in use in the Expedtion and the E-Series, along with the 4.6, but why not rebuild it like they did 10 years later with the 5.0L from the old 302. Then again they might be. I get they're competing with other companies, but why not turbo-charge a smaller V8 to get more power and better MPG's than the 6.2L since it can't reach it's full potential in the F-150 like it can in the Superduty's.

The new Coyote 5.0L has absolutely nothing in common with the old 302 except for displacement. Ford was smart about this. They knew they had fans still loyal to the 5.0L and bringing it back would be a huge hit. Along with it being 4/10ths of a liter smaller in displacement, the new 5.0L has more power and better efficiency than the 5.4L, so for 5.4L fans, its an upgrade and for old fans of a 5.0L, its an upgrade. Win-win for both parties. Now a EcoBoost V8 was in the talks for a while. Even then, you still have the problems of the regular V6 EcoBoost- its direct injected (intake valves tend to gum up on these, but the problems have been curtailed with aftermarket catch cans), and the fact that you have a turbocharger requires more maintenance and more expensive replacement when they fail. Some people just want straight up 8 naturally-aspirated cylinders, in a big-bore configuration for either play or towing. IMO, the 6.2L and F-150 combo is more of a want than a need. If you need brute towing, you'd get a SD and then when you got that SD, you'd skip the 6.2L and go for the 6.7L Diesel. In an F-150, its got power and most people just want to have fun with their trucks. IIRC the 6.2L sales are only making up a 6-7% of all F-150 sales, so that along with its poor CAFE standards average means Ford might drop it in the near future, although there have been talks about making a bigger, more powerful version- the Boss "777" which has 7.0 L, 700 hp @ 7,000 rpm

[Jersey_Joe]

I just heard about that boss motor. My freind said he read something about it. That would b amazing

[kozal01]

The 5.4L is an outdated engine by today's standards. Since its inception in 1997, the 5.4L has served Ford for a number of years, but like any engine after a certain length of time, technology outdates it. By comparison:

1997 SOHC 5.4L: 260hp/350tq @ 15 mpg

2013 DOHC Ti-VCT 3.7L V6: 302hp/278tq @ 23 mpg

To put Ti-VCT in a 5.4L would require changing EVERYTHING: pistons, block assy, crank, cam, lobes, valves, etc. It simply better to create a new engine from the ground up. In the case of the "Boss" series, the 6.2L is intended to compete with Dodge's HEMI and Chevy's Vortec. Ford realized the gamble with the Duratec 37 and EcoBoost was the fanfare of people still loyal to the 8-cylinder. You will still have people wanting high-output, but afraid of technology and will choose a big-block V8 over a smaller, turbocharged V6. It is also mod-friendly to a degree. The Boss 62 features TWO spark plugs per cylinder, so it has even greater spark penetration if the owner decides to go with forced induction (which MANY Raptor owner's have chosen to do). I honestly would love to see a 6.2L variant and 3.5L variant of the Raptor, but in a street-scene like appearance (I'm part of the group that believes Ford should bring back the Lightning).

Now, the 6.2L does have a step over the EcoBoost. While the mileage is terrible in today's standards, it would maintain only a slight drop while towing while the EcoBoost requires just about 8lbs of boost while towing, making its fuel consumption just as bad. And while the EcoBoost gets its numbers using premium fuel, the 6.2L can get its brute force while running regular. It's just Ford's answer to filling the niche. With their four engined lineup, they span just about everyone's needs although Ford has already expressed concern with the CAFE standards that the future of the 6.2L might be limited.

And you are right on the towing part. Even though it can tow well past 11K pounds, the F-150 is not suited for fifth-wheel towing. The powertrain can handle it (the 6.2L is available in the Super Duty) but the suspension of the F-150 is limited, especially the rear wheel loading and the instability it would cause over the weight distribution thereby creating a very unsafe truck/trailer combo (this is very prominent in trailer sway tests) and also the truck's stopping power as a unit. Now fifth-wheel F-150s have been used time and time again and will continue to do so, but if you are going to drop dime on a 35' fifth wheel camper, why stop at an F-150? Its much safer to upgrade to a Super Duty.


Youre forgetting about the 04-08 5.4 that makes 300 HP and 365 lb-ft of torque and the 09-10 5.4 that made 310 HP. While you can compare numbers to the newer engines and on paper they look better than the 5.4 but when you compare torque numbers and where each engine makes its torque the 3.7 V6 and even the 5.0 arent on the level with the old 5.4. The 5.4 is still a better towing motor than the 3.7 by a long shot and still better than the 5.0 because it makes peak torque at a much lower RPM than the 3.7 and 5.0.

As for the OP, Ford knew that people wouldnt be as quick to drop 50K on a Raptor or a limited that had a V6 or the 5.0 in it so they put the 6.2 in it. Many people will still never consider the EB just because its a V6 despite its obvious performance so Ford gave them the option of a beast V8 that still tows better than the 5.0 and is comparable to the EB in torque.

[RhinoZ24]

A 7.0L??? So people will get like 8mpg lol. And would that be in the F-150? So I'm guessing they will be upgrading everything entirely then. They are due by next year or so as they seem to change body style every 5-6 years. And thanks for the input everyone, this is why I love this forum, so many knowledeable people, especially you Alex.

[Jersey_Joe]

15 the body style will change

Not sure what they r gonna put that boss motor in but I'm bettin it's gonna b the boss.

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The mustang world has asked for a boss motor since the boss was a prototype. Just never thought it would b make it into a truck.

And I love my 5.4. Wouldn't trade it for anything. But I'd put it up against anybody It does whatever I need it to do and more. Lol
Long live the 5.4

[RhinoZ24]

Haha yeah, and it would have to be the Superduty I'm guessing.

[Raptor05121]

Youre forgetting about the 04-08 5.4 that makes 300 HP and 365 lb-ft of torque and the 09-10 5.4 that made 310 HP. While you can compare numbers to the newer engines and on paper they look better than the 5.4 but when you compare torque numbers and where each engine makes its torque the 3.7 V6 and even the 5.0 arent on the level with the old 5.4. The 5.4 is still a better towing motor than the 3.7 by a long shot and still better than the 5.0 because it makes peak torque at a much lower RPM than the 3.7 and 5.0.


Patrick I wasn't meaning to directly compare the two, but rather show how technological advancements in engine design have brought tiny V6 engines to the door step of older V8s, thus Ford's reasoning behind killing the 5.4L and going to a brand-new engine.


A 7.0L??? So people will get like 8mpg lol. And would that be in the F-150? So I'm guessing they will be upgrading everything entirely then. They are due by next year or so as they seem to change body style every 5-6 years. And thanks for the input everyone, this is why I love this forum, so many knowledeable people, especially you Alex.

AFAIK, the Boss 777 will not be production run, but rather a testbed and one-off for SVT to show off. The mileage of that engine would be terrible. I honestly believe there shouldn't be a gas counterpart in the Super Duty lineup. A diesel is so much more economical in the sense of burden of power and mileage while under load.

[RhinoZ24]

Ahh, I see, but it would still be a badass engine if they put it in a Raptor or something lol. And exactly, Ford should put a smaller diesel, like the 6.0L, in the F-150 for the V8 guys, power and economy with the V8 they love.

[Jersey_Joe]

6.slow was a terd. To many probs. I feel your passion kid. Ford has been talkin small diesel fer the 150 fer a few years now. Maybe we will see it soon

[RhinoZ24]

Hopefully, and yeah I know it was a s***ty engine, but I should've said something small like the 6.0L. That's what I meant lol.

[Jersey_Joe]

Lol. I know bud.

[Raptor05121]

Ford has several diesel engines available already. You just have to cross the pond. I would bet my next paycheck that Ford won't be putting a diesel in the F-150 for at least 10 years. The US has a MUCH higher tolerance on diesel emissions versus Europe.

[dchawk81]

I just heard about that boss motor. My freind said he read something about it. That would b amazing

Tro dat beech in muh Nagrivator.

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Ford has several diesel engines available already. You just have to cross the pond. I would bet my next paycheck that Ford won't be putting a diesel in the F-150 for at least 10 years. The US has a MUCH higher tolerance on diesel emissions versus Europe.

I'd need 10,000 lbs of Dynamat just to tolerate the clack. I hate it. HATE it. The 5.4 is almost dead silent from the cockpit.

[Jersey_Joe]

Cause it's a Lincoln lol

[Ford Fan#1]

Tro dat beech in muh Nagrivator. ---------- I'd need 10,000 lbs of Dynamat just to tolerate the clack. I hate it. HATE it. The 5.4 is almost dead silent from the cockpit.lmfao

Sent from my iPhone using F150 App

[dchawk81]

Cause it's a Lincoln lol

Probably why it weighs like 2,000lbs more than an F-150. It's all dynamat.

But seriously. I'm like 1700lbs heavier than a V6 single cab and 900 over a V8 supercrew. All 4WD.

I'm obese. But I can move. Like a sumo wrestler.

[Jersey_Joe]

Probably why it weighs like 2,000lbs more than an F-150. It's all dynamat. But seriously. I'm like 1700lbs heavier than a V6 single cab and 900 over a V8 supercrew. All 4WD. I'm obese. But I can move. Like a sumo wrestler.
Ha!

[dchawk81]

Is anyone here still stock? Just curious how loud a non-poshmobile is inside by comparison. I can't imagine there's really that much difference.

[RhinoZ24]

Is anyone here still stock? Just curious how loud a non-poshmobile is inside by comparison. I can't imagine there's really that much difference.

Although I have the 4.6L V8, when it was stock it was quiet, sounded like V6 quiet almost lol.

Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallows

[dchawk81]

I can't believe you abandoned all that luxury!

[RhinoZ24]

I can't believe you abandoned all that luxury!

That's not luxury, that's a sound intended for old ladies lol. I'm young and I like to hear my truck roar when I floor it :)

Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallows

[dchawk81]

That's not luxury, that's a sound intended for old ladies lol. I'm young and I like to hear my truck roar when I floor it :)

Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallows

Yoosh whippersnappersh. Get off my lawn!

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I had Flowmaster on my sin bin when I was 19-20 and had it routed to exit right in front of the left rear tire so I could hear it better with my window down. It was a Dodge with the 318 V8 and three speed automatic.

[Jersey_Joe]

Yoosh whippersnappersh. Get off my lawn! ---------- I had Flowmaster on my sin bin when I was 19-20 and had it routed to exit right in front of the left rear tire so I could hear it better with my window down. It was a Dodge with the 318 V8 and three speed automatic.

Uhg so sorry to hear about your Chrysler product. So glad you have switched sides my brother.

[dchawk81]

Uhg so sorry to hear about your Chrysler product. So glad you have switched sides my brother.

Yeah I only ever got one girl in it. And we only half sinned.

[Jersey_Joe]

yeah i only ever got one girl in it. And we only half sinned.

lmbo!!

[RhinoZ24]

Yeah I only ever got one girl in it. And we only half sinned.

Lmao

Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallows