Possible Transmission Problem?

[RhinoZ24]

I have an Edge Evolution Programmer on my 2005 4.6L V8 F-150. The tune I have it set on firms up the shifts but it seems to be at the same shift rpm at WOT as stock. However, (and this has been occurring for months) it squeals when shifting from 1st to 2nd at WOT. It first started out as only when I was already rolling and then gunned it, it would squeal at the shift. Now it's anytime at WOT from first to second gear, rolling or from a stop. The sound sounds like a belt squeal almost (its a screeching/squealing noise at the shift, not a grinding noise though) and I fear it's the tranny slipping. Any ideas what it is and how bad it is and what damage I may have caused? If I adjusted the tune to lower the shift point do you think it would solve the issue? I have avoided gunning it for the past few months in hopes of not causing further damage. Thanks in advance!


And heres the pictures you asked for Alfie, if they help any. Its kind difficult because the coolant hose is right above the pulley for the alternator.

[RhinoZ24]

Sorry they didn't all attach.

7054



7055

[RhinoZ24]

Last one lol

[RhinoZ24]

Also when it does the squeal while shifting, it seems to shift really hard (but that's the programmer firming the shifts) and it almost seems like it takes a second to shift as well.

[alfie]

Can't really see the front. Were the nut holds the pulley on. The thing is. If u hear a squeal noise when it shifts. What happens is when your at peak rpm and shift gears. The alternator force wants to keep turning. But the engine suddenly and quickly drops in RPMs. These two forces (alternator wants to keep spinning and engine wants to slow down ) causes the belt to slip on the alternator pulley. This is what people he's when they say they hear a squeal when shifting gears. There really isn't a fix unless you switch to a one way clutch pulley like on the newer cars.


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Yeah that's not a clutch pulley.


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[RhinoZ24]

Are you sure thats what it is, I mean it makes sense because the noise seems to be coming from the engine not below me on the transmission. My only concern is that its gotten worse. Would replacing the pulley and the belt help any? And would switching to a clutch alternator be expensive?

[Jersey_Joe]

Are you sure thats what it is, I mean it makes sense because the noise seems to be coming from the engine not below me on the transmission. My only concern is that its gotten worse. Would replacing the pulley and the belt help any? And would switching to a clutch alternator be expensive?
Yup. Had the same thing on my stock 5.4 in my 03. And no. It's not that expensive. But with cure your problem. It is annoying

[RhinoZ24]

How much was the clutch alternator for you Joe? And did it have a higher amp rating than the stock one too? Looking to add some accessories that will be using some juice so might as well step up the power source lol.

[alfie]

U can also just swap the pulley. That's the cheapest route. But still not cheap.


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[Jersey_Joe]

How much was the clutch alternator for you Joe? And did it have a higher amp rating than the stock one too? Looking to add some accessories that will be using some juice so might as well step up the power source lol.
You'll b better off just swapping the pully like Alfie said. I had an upgrade I had a Dual batt kit with a bigger alt. it was a bunch of overkill. Headlights were nice and bright tho lol. I wasn't really killin amps with all my accessories. I'll bet I could have done fine with a single set up. I think it was 285? Been awhile home slice lol

[RhinoZ24]

U can also just swap the pulley. That's the cheapest route. But still not cheap.

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Will that solve the problem?

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You'll b better off just swapping the pully like Alfie said. I had an upgrade I had a Dual batt kit with a bigger alt. it was a bunch of overkill. Headlights were nice and bright tho lol. I wasn't really killin amps with all my accessories. I'll bet I could have done fine with a single set up. I think it was 285? Been awhile home slice lol

Well that's not too expensive though.

[alfie]

Yes as it will allow the alternator to spin down at its own rate until the pulley speed matches the shaft speed.


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[RhinoZ24]

Yes as it will allow the alternator to spin down at its own rate until the pulley speed matches the shaft speed.

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Awesome, thanks Alfie!! I'll look into finding the best price.

[RhinoZ24]

Ok so first I'm going to try belt dressing to see if it does anything. If not, that pulley isn't punched on the alternator correct, it has a nut/bolt holding it on? Because the Motorcraft pulley is like $16 off of Rockauto.com and I just want to make sure I can remove the old one first. It beats buying a reman Motorcraft 110 Amp for $250 plus a $75 core charge, or an upgraded 130 Amp for $230 plus the $75 core charge for sure.

[RhinoZ24]

Anyone know? Is the pulley punched onto the alternator or held on by a bolt?

[alfie]

There is a special tool to remove the pulley. I'm sure there is a youtube video on it. Everything is on youtube.


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[RhinoZ24]

Ok and my dad mentioned something I hadn't thought of. How can the pulley go bad because the bearing is inside the alternator and the pulley is attached to the shaft that goes into the bearing. No way for the pulley to really go bad. So should I just replace the whole alternator then? Or did you mean the tensioner pulley? Because that one has a bearing in it. Just wondering because I don't see how the pulley can be causing the squealing if it's attached to a shaft and doesn't have a way of slipping like with a bearing.

[alfie]

The noise is not a result of a faulty component. It's a result of a bad design. This is a normal characteristic of that design. We get them in all the Time. U can out a belt on and have a temper arty fix but the issue is the sudden change in speed will always be there. The pulley is a fix ford did later to prevent this.

Also your pulley will come off easy. Just remove the nut and it comes off the tool is for the removal of a clutch pulley. Sorry wasn't thing straight when I posted that.


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[RhinoZ24]

I'm just having a hard time figuring how the pulley will fix that problem unless the shaft that goes into the bearing is attached to the pulley permanently. I'm not trying to argue or anything, I just don't understand is all. And if I do remove it I don't need the tool then?

[alfie]

The shaft and pulley are attached together with the nut. It's a tapered shaft and spin at same speed all the time.

Correct tool is only to remove the pulley.


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[RhinoZ24]

So the shaft comes out with the pulley too? That's what I'm trying to figure out lol. Sorry for the stupid questions, I'm tired and can't figure it. I can only think that I'd have to replace the pulley and shaft to make a difference. Because replacing a pulley that doesn't have a bearing just doesn't seem like a fix to me.

[joshpickworth]

Is this the only pulley know to go bad and where can you get the pulley? Is it just a replacement pulley or an after market one, my trucks been doin just about the same thing

[Ford Fan#1]

Is this the only pulley know to go bad and where can you get the pulley? Is it just a replacement pulley or an after market one, my trucks been doin just about the same thingif you get a aftermarket one you have to turn it 180" or it will rub on the timing case and make awful noises ( I did it to my truck and I almost puked from it sounding so bad

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[Grabber70Mach]

My understanding is the pulley is a tapered fit onto the shaft that is permanently a part of the alternator. Thus it has the potential to slip under specific conditions. When your transmission shifts your engine decreases in rpms, that presents a condition when this occurs. Ford apparently discovered this and resolved the issue by installing pullies with a built in clutch that only will spin the alternator in one direction (the direction the belt spins it) but will slip purposely in the opposite direction so the squealing is alleviated. This occurs when the transmission shifts and lowers the rpms thus creating a load in the opposite direction on the alternator the clutch now allows the alternator to freely spin down without making a noise by slipping on the belt. This is the "new" pulley he refers to you installing.

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[RhinoZ24]

Is this the only pulley know to go bad and where can you get the pulley? Is it just a replacement pulley or an after market one, my trucks been doin just about the same thing

Rockauto.com has the Motorcraft one for like $16 or $17.

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My understanding is the pulley is a tapered fit onto the shaft that is permanently a part of the alternator. Thus it has the potential to slip under specific conditions. When your transmission shifts your engine decreases in rpms, that presents a condition when this occurs. Ford apparently discovered this and resolved the issue by installing pullies with a built in clutch that only will spin the alternator in one direction (the direction the belt spins it) but will slip purposely in the opposite direction so the squealing is alleviated. This occurs when the transmission shifts and lowers the rpms thus creating a load in the opposite direction on the alternator the clutch now allows the alternator to freely spin down without making a noise by slipping on the belt. This is the "new" pulley he refers to you installing.

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Alright, now I get it. Thanks Grabber, I just couldn't see how a pulley without a bearing was slipping but that makes sense then. Do you happen to know what year they implemented the fix? And do you happen to know that if I buy a new Motorcraft pulley now from Rockauto of Fordparts.com that it'll be the one with the clutch?

[alfie]

You can ID the pulley by the way it looks. Let me find a pix.


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[RhinoZ24]

Awesome thanks Alfie and Grabber

[Grabber70Mach]

Rockauto.com has the Motorcraft one for like $16 or $17.

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Alright, now I get it. Thanks Grabber, I just couldn't see how a pulley without a bearing was slipping but that makes sense then. Do you happen to know what year they implemented the fix? And do you happen to know that if I buy a new Motorcraft pulley now from Rockauto of Fordparts.com that it'll be the one with the clutch?

Your Welcome, I cannot answer your questions, you'll have to rely on a higher authority, Alfie. 😊

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[RhinoZ24]

Haha its all good, you helped me understand how it worked and what was wrong and that's what I needed. And Alfie of course helped a lot too, I just need the part number so I can order it and fix it. And if it helps Alfie, it's a 2005 Ford F-150 4.6L 2V V8 SOHC.

[alfie]

Don't think ford sells them by them selfs. I haven't done the conversion my self just know people have. My car was made with it. :).


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[RhinoZ24]

So I have to buy a whole new alternator to get it then? Dammit, Ford always does this with parts and their designs, they need to fire some engineers that make this stuff. Just like when my front hub bearings went bad and I had to replace my brake rotors too because it was all one piece. Why can't they make the parts individual so its cheaper to fix, it's so stupid. Anyways if I have to buy a new alternator, my stock one is 110A, however I noticed the upgraded 130A is about $20 cheaper. Can I buy that one or do I have to get the 110A one again. And they're all Motorcraft Reman's, so I'm assuming they have the new clutch pulley installed?

[alfie]

The pulley can be bought from the aftermarket world.


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[RhinoZ24]

The pulley can be bought from the aftermarket world.

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Thank the Lord lol, that's my route then. Not gunna buy something I don't need to replace lol. And thanks again Alfie and Grabber, you guys are awesome and were definitely helpful!!

[RhinoZ24]

Think it would be worthwhile when I do this to change the idler pulley an serpentine belt too? I've only got around 67,000 on my truck.

[joshpickworth]

If it ain't broke don't fix it, if the belts gettin bad I'd change it though, my trucks got 140000 and belt looks fine

[RhinoZ24]

If it ain't broke don't fix it, if the belts gettin bad I'd change it though, my trucks got 140000 and belt looks fine

Good point, just thought it'd be worthwhile to do it all at once instead of 3 separate times when they all need replaced lol.

[RhinoZ24]

The pulley can be bought from the aftermarket world.

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Any leads for me Alfie, I'm having a hell of a time finding a clutch pulley for the 4.6L 2V V8. All I can find is for the 5.4 or the 4.6 3V and I'm told it's not compatible with my alternator. Any sites you know of that have it?

[RhinoZ24]

Bump!

[joshpickworth]

Where'd you find the ones for the 5.4

[RhinoZ24]

Idk, I checked so many sites lol. eBay, Jegs, Summit, LMCtruck, rockauto, fordparts, autoanything. They're out there for you're engine I'm pretty sure.

[alfie]

Not sure. I haven't done one. I just know some people switch to it.


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[RhinoZ24]

Not sure. I haven't done one. I just know some people switch to it.

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Ok and if I bought a reman alternator from Ford would it have the clutch pulley or would it be the same as I already have? If you know.

[alfie]

Same.


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[RhinoZ24]

S***...ok maybe I'll just buy a new pulley then and see if it does anything to alleviate the noise at WOT shifts. I'll let you guys know when I get it and install it so if it persists maybe you have another idea. Thanks for all the help thus far though everyone!

[alfie]

Don't think a pulley will help tho


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Is your truck a 2v? Or a 3v?


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How many grooves ? 6 or 8?


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Wait looks like a 2v based on the picture. U can probably use an alternator from a crown Vic police interceptor as they had OAD pullies on there alternators. But i don't know if you have a basic alternator or a smart alternator


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How many wires to do u have on the alternator connector ? 2 or 3.


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[RhinoZ24]

Don't think a pulley will help tho

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Is your truck a 2v? Or a 3v?

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How many grooves ? 6 or 8?

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Wait looks like a 2v based on the picture. U can probably use an alternator from a crown Vic police interceptor as they had OAD pullies on there alternators. But i don't know if you have a basic alternator or a smart alternator

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How many wires to do u have on the alternator connector ? 2 or 3.

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It's a 2005 so it's the 2V 4.6L V8. And I'll look tomorrow at the grooves and for the wires and let you know then. And I thought the Crown Vic's had the 3V 4.6's? And what an OAD pulley? Sorry for the dumb questions. An since I've found the clutch pulley's for the 3V use in the Mustang GT and the Crown Vic, shouldn't it fit on my alternator or are they completely different?

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Ok I looked and it's the 6 groove pulley. And the alternator has 2 main wires going from it to the battery, one looks like a thick wire and the other is made up of 3 smaller wires. Idk if that helps any.

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Oh an OAD is an Overrunning Alternator Decoupler, got it. I've been searching using "clutch pulley" so maybe I'll find something using OAD instead. I'll let you know. Thanks again!

[joshpickworth]

Google GATES adp, I just learned a lot in the last 10 minutes!

[RhinoZ24]

It's helpful, but it only has listings for the Crown Vic, and that was the 3V 4.6. I have the 2V, Idk if they exist for my truck.

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I give up, they don't have anything for the 2V 4.6L used in the F-150. So what can I do to fix the squeal then?

[joshpickworth]

I'd look at after market alternators and see if you can buy one with the new designed pulley, I think that's what I may end up looking into cause I haven't seen any for a 3v 5.4, I'll just keep looking though and also I was watching a you tube video on how to diagnose it....check out the videos cause there's a chance it could be the tensioner or idle pulley/pulleys....at least from what I read, I was up from midnight til 2:30 am looking at tires and other things I need to replace, list keeps growing!!!

[RhinoZ24]

I'd look at after market alternators and see if you can buy one with the new designed pulley, I think that's what I may end up looking into cause I haven't seen any for a 3v 5.4, I'll just keep looking though and also I was watching a you tube video on how to diagnose it....check out the videos cause there's a chance it could be the tensioner or idle pulley/pulleys....at least from what I read, I was up from midnight til 2:30 am looking at tires and other things I need to replace, list keeps growing!!!

That's probably what I'm going to have to do and I did and they led me to further believe it was either the alternator pulley or the tensioner or idler pulley. And our trucks are never done with stuff like this lol.

[joshpickworth]

I love my 2006 but I wish it had an old engine in it, screw all this new crap lol

[alfie]

The earlier crown Vic came with OAD and is the same as the f150s. So I think u can use one of those alternators. The newer alternators are smart alternators and canot be interchanged. But I just have to make sure which alternator u have. If I remember while I'm at work I'll look it up


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[RhinoZ24]

The earlier crown Vic came with OAD and is the same as the f150s. So I think u can use one of those alternators. The newer alternators are smart alternators and canot be interchanged. But I just have to make sure which alternator u have. If I remember while I'm at work I'll look it up

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I would appreciate it very much if you could. And what makes an alternator "smart"? Lol. And if the Crown Vic's had the OAD pulleys and were the same alternators, can't I just take the pulley instead of the whole alternator?

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I love my 2006 but I wish it had an old engine in it, screw all this new crap lol

Agreed, computers and cramped engine compartments suck lol.

[RhinoZ24]

Any news?

[RhinoZ24]

Alfie? Anyone?

[alfie]

Sorry. I haven't been on forums lately. Oh. Did some reading. Looks like u can use an alternator for a 05 crown Vic police car. As the alternator should bolt on and they are made with a clutch pulley.


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Connector looks the same. And the pin lay out is the same aswell. Should plug and play. Make sure to look at it when u go buy one and make sure it has a clutch on it. Based on what I see it should work. I can get one from auto zone as they have no questions asked returns.


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[RhinoZ24]

Its all good brother, I know you have your own life and are busy too. And ok as long as its 110 Amps I should be ok right? What's the worst case scenario if they aren't compatible? Will it mess anything up? And would it not work to just order the pulley for one made for the crown vic and place it on my current alternator or are the shafts different sizes for it? Sorry for all the questions.

[alfie]

Worst case it won't charge and u have to take it off. Not sure about the shaft. It may work but like I said. I haven't done this before. But they sell kits to go from clutch pulley to solid pulley. And it looks the same.


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[RhinoZ24]

Alright thanks, at least I know it won't mess up my electrical system then. And I'll try getting just the clutch pulley first and if it doesn't fit I'll get the whole alternator.

[RhinoZ24]

So rockauto.com has a Bosch 200amp alternator made for an '05 Crown Vic, it has the clutch pulley on it and is the best priced for a bigger name brand (I don't like the cheaper prices of brands I've never heard of), the Motorcraft ones are ridiculously priced. Think I would be okay if I got a Bosch one, or would you advise against that brand. Also I talked to my mechanic who said its perfectly fine to go from my stock 110A alternator to the 200A so I'm fine with switching now (I think I'll add a sub and some aftermarket light and maybe a train horn since I'll have a bunch of extra power potential lol).

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Why I'm on the subject of transmissions, Alfie would swapping my transmission cooler for a larger one be too difficult? My truck came without the factory tow package and during the summer my trans temp sometimes gets to 170* in traffic and on the freeway (also I have plans for things I'll need to tow, already have a hitch installed). I remember DJ on here saying with his he usually sits around 130*, just curious because I know trans fluid starts breaking down somewhere around 200* and I'd like to extend the life of both my fluid and my transmission by keeping it cooler. Also what else does the factory tow package entail besides a tow hitch, 7-pin connector, and larger trans oil cooler, anything else? I think there's another engine oil cooler too right or no?

[Ford Fan#1]

So rockauto.com has a Bosch 200amp alternator made for an '05 Crown Vic, it has the clutch pulley on it and is the best priced for a bigger name brand (I don't like the cheaper prices of brands I've never heard of), the Motorcraft ones are ridiculously priced. Think I would be okay if I got a Bosch one, or would you advise against that brand. Also I talked to my mechanic who said its perfectly fine to go from my stock 110A alternator to the 200A so I'm fine with switching now (I think I'll add a sub and some aftermarket light and maybe a train horn since I'll have a bunch of extra power potential lol). ---------- Why I'm on the subject of transmissions, Alfie would swapping my transmission cooler for a larger one be too difficult? My truck came without the factory tow package and during the summer my trans temp sometimes gets to 170* in traffic and on the freeway (also I have plans for things I'll need to tow, already have a hitch installed). I remember DJ on here saying with his he usually sits around 130*, just curious because I know trans fluid starts breaking down somewhere around 200* and I'd like to extend the life of both my fluid and my transmission by keeping it cooler. Also what else does the factory tow package entail besides a tow hitch, 7-pin connector, and larger trans oil cooler, anything else? I think there's another engine oil cooler too right or no?i heard that turning off the overdrive will keep it cooler when it's stop and go traffic but I'm not sure..

[RhinoZ24]

That won't do anything, all the overdrive button does is disable the transmission from shifting into the highest and most efficient gear. Its designed for saving your brakes by using your engine as a brake when going down steep slopes. It limits the speed you can go because it's limited to a lower gear, you hit higher rpms but essentially go slower because you can't go faster without shifting. Turning it off when you're nowhere near shifting into overdrive will do nothing, as far as I know, to aid in cooling the transmission.

[bignutz]

transmission range sensor! !! I spent 2 weeks replacing every switch and relay finally found it

[Ford Fan#1]

That won't do anything, all the overdrive button does is disable the transmission from shifting into the highest and most efficient gear. Its designed for saving your brakes by using your engine as a brake when going down steep slopes. It limits the speed you can go because it's limited to a lower gear, you hit higher rpms but essentially go slower because you can't go faster without shifting. Turning it off when you're nowhere near shifting into overdrive will do nothing, as far as I know, to aid in cooling the transmission... Thanks for then help lmao I didn't know that it slowed it down

[RhinoZ24]

.. Thanks for then help lmao I didn't know that it slowed it down

It's all good we're all hear to learn. And yeah it basically just uses your engine as a brake to save your actual brakes on steep downhills.

Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallows

[Grabber70Mach]

While it may be fine to upgrade from a 110 to 200, I would look into weather the wire going from the alternator to the battery can handle the extra amperage with out melting. You could always run a seperate wire with a fuse or circuit breaker if you find the stock one isn't up to the task.

From infinity and beyond

[Ford Fan#1]

It's all good we're all hear to learn. And yeah it basically just uses your engine as a brake to save your actual brakes on steep downhills. Dodge Sucks, Chevy Swallowsmy brother says only new cars do that? I'm confused

[RhinoZ24]

my brother says only new cars do that? I'm confused

Nope, they've had it for awhile. In the old school days instead of O/D they had the gears like what we can shift into like 1 and 2, but many of them had 3 that you could manually shift your automatic transmission into, basically a manual overdrive.

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While it may be fine to upgrade from a 110 to 200, I would look into weather the wire going from the alternator to the battery can handle the extra amperage with out melting. You could always run a seperate wire with a fuse or circuit breaker if you find the stock one isn't up to the task.

From infinity and beyond

Good point, my mechanic just said it would be fine because its not increasing the voltage not the amperage, but that was for when I asked about the voltage regulator. I'll have to check into the battery cable. Thanks Ted!